bluecarrot ([info]bluecarrot) wrote,
@ 2008-07-01 10:33:00
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The Best Choice
The last night before we booked out the next afternoon, we sat around the bunk listening and engaging in an interesting discourse. We covered a few topics, one of which was "the best choice", which I found it philosophical and thought-provoking enough to share. I have added my own graphical analysis below.

"The best choice" refers to the choice taken by a person in each scenario he is placed within. Laying down some ground rules, we can agree that every man is individual in nature. We can also acknowledge that, like consumer theory in economics, our choices are limited and subject to constraints, so we cannot choose beyond what we are offered. If we were to plot a graph:


The graph above depicts how our choices are determined by two base factors - logic (x-axis) and emotion (y-axis). Keeping all other factors constant (eg. unpredictable situations where time is of essence) we are always driven by rational and temperamental choices. The downward-sloping straight line represents the logical and emotional limits of an individual, which is different for everybody. The downward-sloping curved line represents the "rational-temperamental" curve, which shows a relationship between logic and emotion, ie. how an individual makes his choice by using both base factors. [At this point, I'd like to point that the assumption made is that logic and emotion are antagonists to each other, that one cannot be both rational and temperamental in his choice, nor both irrational and calm.] Point 'a' on the graph represents "the short-sighted best choice". The individual has not chosen "the best choice" he is allowed as there are many more better choices he can actually pick above that point. Point 'c' represents "the impossible best choice". The individual is unable to choose it even though it is clearly better than his "best choice", because his level of emotion and reasoning does not allow for the suggestion of such a choice to be made. Point 'b' then represents "the best choice" an individual is allowed to make, because he has maximised both emotion and logic and cannot choose an even better "best choice" anymore.

We've agreed earlier that every man is individual in nature, hence some people tend to be more emotional, while others tend to be more logical. Given one scenario, the emotional individual chooses differently from the logical individual. If we plot another graph:


The green curve represents an emotional person A, who makes choices temperamentally. The blue curve represents a logical person B, who makes choices rationally. For illustration purposes, I have assumed that both individuals are making their "best choices". However, when we put them together under the same scenario that affects both of them, we realize that their choices are not "The Best Choice", which is shown by the red curve. The red curve shows that both choices made have resulted in a "Short-sighted Best Choice" (all in capital letters here to differentiate between an individual's choice and a collective choice.) This choice will ultimately result in conflicts between both individuals, because they do not share the same methods and ideas of achieving the goal. Although both of them are making their personal "best choices", these are not the best choices because they have not attained a shared "Best Choice". [We shall not mix up "The Best Choice" with an "impossible best choice", because even though it is certain that "The Best Choice" lies outside of both individuals' rational-temperamental curves, however, it is definitely possible to attain if both of them are willing to work together, thereby the emotional and logical limits would have been propelled outwards, as shown by the red line.]

I think I shall stop here to allow time for you to absorb this idea. I'm open to questions and new perspectives you may wish to share.



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"Best Method" not "Best Choice"
[info]t-h-i-n-k.blogspot.com
2008-07-01 06:41 am UTC (link)
I don't quite understand your graphs. I think there is something wrong with the graphs...

1. Why should the best choice be on the emotion-logic limit line?

2. [The downward-sloping curved line represents the "rational-temperamental" curve, which shows a relationship between logic and emotion, ie. how an individual makes his choice by using both base factors] -- Can you explain this further?

I shall attempt to draw a better explaination at my blog: http://t-h-i-n-k.blogspot.com

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Re: "Best Method" not "Best Choice"
[info]bluecarrot
2008-07-01 07:05 am UTC (link)
Because if we speak of choices, we make choices based on rational or temperamental impulses, while not taking into account any other factors that are secondary in their influences. The emotion-logic line is the very base constraint of the choices available to us, while not looking at exogenous factors like environment, statuses etc. On two extremes, we can be totally logical or we can be affected by emotions, but we tend to choose by a mixture of both. I believe that even though we behave rationally, we also tend to consider the emotional consequences of taking such rational choices, that's why we do not become too emotional in the choices we make, nor do we choose devoid of feelings. The "best choice" then lies on this limit because of the considerations we placed upon choosing it.

About the point 'c', our emotions and logic limit us to choose something that lies on or below that line, not something outside of it. This can be explained in that we're 3-dimensional beings and we can only comprehend dimensions below that (eg. 1-d line, 2-d square), but not above that. Who knows there may be a better than our "best" choice out there, but due to our intrinsic characters, we are not able to determine those choices that lie outside our abilities.

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Re: "Best Method" not "Best Choice"
(Anonymous)
2008-07-01 08:32 am UTC (link)
[Too bad I can't post a graph here.]

If you believe in a "Best Method", that may not yet be pecievable, then the "Best Method" must be a fixed point in the 2D space. Then why is it not possible that the emo-logic line for a particular person be pushed beyond the fixed point? I hope you agree that of cos it would!

Additionally, the "Best Method" is also not necessarily a chosen choice, nor a known-to-be-best choice, nor even known. But it is always a possible and discoverable option.

The exisistence of a "Best Method" means a great deal. If one can develop and understand a systematic way of deriving the "Best Method", there will be, in short and simplistic terms, perfection.

However, it requires that the fixed point be possible to lie below the emo-logic limit.

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Re: "Best Method" not "Best Choice"
[info]bluecarrot
2008-07-01 03:42 pm UTC (link)
I agree with you that there is a fixed point 'there', but I do not agree that the emo-logic line can be pushed beyond it. If that is the case, the "best method" wouldn't be the best, but rather, a short-sighted one because there is still a better method than the best the person thinks it is.

I will try to explain this in the next post... But I thank you for that night of discussion, it really broadened my perspective and made me think of it more hehe...

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Re: "Best Method" not "Best Choice"
(Anonymous)
2008-07-01 03:06 pm UTC (link)
the possibility frontier of our choices is not constrained within an emotion/logic two-vector space.

what you consider exogenous factors - environment, status, by which i assume you mean factors like socioeconomic status, are in fact ENDOgenous factors that are generated within, and generative of, the decision making process.

a simple example - the amount of money i have greatly INCREASES the range of possible choices open to me in any given situation. in your 2-dimensional space, the only way to increase the range of choices is an increase in emotion or logic - what would that entail? an increase in the _capacity_ for emotion and logic? how is that analogous to an increase in choice range?

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Re: "Best Method" not "Best Choice"
[info]bluecarrot
2008-07-01 03:33 pm UTC (link)
True now that with more money, you are given more options to choose from, and can even buy that camera which you previously couldn't. You will then go through a process of weighing the emotional and logical factors before making your choice to buy or not. If you're impulsive (irrational and highly emotional) you'll want to grab it the moment you obtain the extra money. If you're the reasoning type of person, you'll wonder if it's a good investment to buy the camera now, since you have another that's working fine, and would it be better to invest this amount of money or to buy something else that you don't have and you could be happier (emotional). It's through weighing both the emotional and logical factors that will determine the final choice you will make.

By considering the environment, status, etc. as exogenous factors, what I imply is that they are factors which lie outside our basic intrinsic characters. Every choice we make is an interplay of emotion and logic, the environment and all others are highly important but secondary. We still have to consider factors like the amount of money we have before we can make a choice, but the endogenous factors of emotion and logic work as the base of all choices.

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Re: "Best Method" not "Best Choice"
(Anonymous)
2008-07-02 06:05 pm UTC (link)
True that other factors increases the range of choices but that does not mean that the new range would encompass a better option.

I am talking about a "Best Method", not a "Best Choice". The "Best Method" does not depend on your ability to choose or to realise it -- it is the Best Method in that situation, for that situation.

see: http://tigerion.vuox.com/sightscope.jpg

- All possibilities represent anything that is possible, like assinate LKY
- All options represents possibilities within your ability in that situation, like commiting suicide
- All choices represents options that are deemed approperiate and have passed the sanity tests, for that situation.
- The choice is the choosen method, and it must be the "best choice" as the individual sees it, otherwise he would not have choosen it.
- The "Best Method", however, is an option that may fall anywhere within "All options". In my illustration, it is within "All options" and also "All Choices" thus, increase the range of choices does not change the fact where the "Best Method" lies.
- The "Best Method" may not have been chosen because the individual may have failed to analyse the situation in a "correct" way, if it was within "All Choices".
- If the "Best Method" is not within the "All Choices", it means that there were limiting factors preventing him to include it in the list of "All Choices".

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Re: "Best Method" not "Best Choice"
(Anonymous)
2008-07-03 05:32 am UTC (link)
there is a crucial difference between positing a "best choice," which is a _normative_ position contingent on an individual's emotional/logical condition, and positing a "best method," which is a _positive_ notion.

if you are indeed positing a positive "best" choice, then that is a very basic and fundamental assumption about the world. "best method" - to who? is it knowable? is it possible to verify? what is the epistemological quality of this "best method," what are its contingencies? presumably if it is subject to NO contingencies then no model will ever capture it sufficiently. that would be like trying to model the existence of god within space-time vectors.

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Re: "Best Method" not "Best Choice"
(Anonymous)
2008-07-03 05:35 pm UTC (link)
Of course, the "Best Method" hypothesis at this stage, is still... a hypothesis (duh!). Is it knowable? is it verifiable? That is exactly what I am interested in. And it would be great if you could share your two cents.

Firstly, the "Best Method" is not "to who", it's "for the situation". Such that each situation has its own best method. This is based on the assumption that people cannot change (to a large extent) the external conditions of the situation they are in, but only adapt to it by changing the internal self such as thought and perspective. The result of this internal change is what I call an objective. Thus two different individuals with the same objectives will agree on a same method (not necessarily the "Best Method") and hence choice, for that same situation.

Trying to test the existence of a "Best Method" is not nearly the same as testing for GOD. Because GOD is assumed to be an intelligent being and can always be said as hiding from us. The "Best Method" as I had mentioned, is a fixed method, at least for a very long time frame. I postulate that we can at least get very close to this
"fixed point", if not exactly at it.

In the most simple terms, if there are a fixed number of methods, and no two methods are equal, then given 2 methods, one must be greater than the other and hence by deduction, there must be a best method.(unless X > Y > Z > X can be true).

Simple ways to test for "Best Method" could include "statistics of choices", "outcome-objective deviation", "statisfaction test" (all coined casually, but you get the point).

My purpose is not to convince, I am just trying to share the discussion. And I think the approach is to first assume the positive, then try to falsify it.

[PS: I think the anonymous's just me (kokboon) and another bombastic englishman here.. =) and sorry bluecarrot for making this place a forum!]

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Re: "Best Method" not "Best Choice"
(Anonymous)
2008-07-03 10:10 pm UTC (link)
statistics of choices - this comes back to choice theory, not method theory. choices are always contingent on the people who are making them ... if you reject "best choice" terminology in favor of "best method," then why use choice assessment to evaluate the method?

outcome-objective deviation - the objective is contingent on the owner of the objective. situations do not have objectives, people in situations do, so it's misleading to talk about a "best method" for a _situation_ and then use an outcome-objective deviation test.

i don't know what statistfaction is. i suppose it means satisfaction? in which case "best" is still contingent on who is being satisfied.

in short ... the approach of assuming the positive and then trying to falsify it is doomed from the beginning if the assumption is an untenable one

-dalglish (and i'm not english.)

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Re: "Best Method" not "Best Choice"
(Anonymous)
2008-07-03 10:14 pm UTC (link)
in case i wasn't clear enough -

why would you make assumptions, build a model, represent a hypothesis in the model, and then dismantle everything to prove something false? i'm not quite sure what your intentions are with the model, so let's consider two cases -

Case 1: Your model is able to pinpoint a "Best Method"
Problem: Your assumptions and evaluative criteria are flawed and cannot sustain the analysis

Case 2: Your model, not able to pinpoint a "Best Method," concludes that no such one exists
Problem: Your assumptions, being logically untenable in the first place, already should point to the fact that no "Best Method" exists, so why protract it into a model?

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Re: "Best Method" not "Best Choice"
(Anonymous)
2008-07-03 10:15 pm UTC (link)
and that was me again, sorry. - dalglish

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Re: "Best Method" not "Best Choice"
[info]bluecarrot
2008-07-04 02:54 am UTC (link)
No problem... It is good to facilitate some discussion and we all can learn hehe...

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: "Best Method" not "Best Choice"
[info]bluecarrot
2008-07-03 05:35 am UTC (link)
what's up with all the anonymous replies, it'd be great to leave a name behind so I know who's who :D

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[info]gssq
2008-07-05 11:15 am UTC (link)
Wah lao. Pseudoeconomics.

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